Crystal Clean!
Gay Games controversy splits Illinois town
It's the same with Sunita Stone. "Crystal Lake is a G-ratedThis is one of the main problems I have with the Chicago suburbs. People who live in these suburbs live in a fantasy world, a white fantasy world, where nobody can hurt them and everyone lives in a picture perfect house. The city is a very scary place where colored people, and gays run around. These people live in their own ignorance which breeds intolerance and bigotry.
place," she said. "There's no reason to start making things racy. If you want to
go to Chicago to do that, that's fine. I'm not going to go there."
What are they afraid of? Are they afraid that the gay games will make their children gay? Are they afraid that during the gay rowing event people will be naked and having gay sex in front of their houses? Is being gay rated R???
To be fair, I do believe that a lot of people do believe that being gay is rated R. However this is because the American media only show gay parades when they talk about a mass of gay people in one place. Sometimes those parades can get a little racy, but not rated R. However those parades serve a purpose, the same purpose that these games serve. If Crystal Lake does not let the gay games participate in their town then I am personally going to let they mayor know that he is fostering an intolerant community. It is issues like this one that shows us why these games are not only important, but that we have a long way to go.
posted by Jonathan @ 3:17 PM
20 comments
20 Comments:
It's Lauren, and as a card carrying member of the Chicago suburbs let me say something, Be careful not the gernealize "People in the suburbs..." Some of us believe otherwise, in fact I know many people who do.
You know, Kristin is from CL, and now her intolerance is starting to make even more sense.
Lauren, Living in the Chicago suburbs is like being in a bad relationship. You do not know you are in one, until you get out of it. I lived in the suburbs for most of my life, which makes me a card carrying member as well. If you would like to bust out some stats we can do that, but i am sure the percentage of diversity in the suburbs compared to chicago is almost 0. This lack of diversity almost always leads to ignorance of major issues affecting people. So do some people believe what crystal lake is doing is wrong? Sure, but nobody in the suburbs really does anything about it. It's not their problem so fuck it! There is something called White Privilege that runs so rampant in the suburbs that it is almost the norm.
So when I place everyone in a catagory it is because everyone is part of the problem. If you want an example on this ask Paul about the people in the bushes or ask him to take public transportation at midnight.
Ok ok I relent!!! I guess I live in a weird world. My feet have always been one in and one out of the subrbs having gone to a school full of "city people." I have lived in "the city," for 4 years now, so maybe I am bit naive when it comes to these things. And you're right Paul proves the point. As always.
Jon, I beg to differ with your argument about the suburbs lacking diversity. Personally, having grown up in Aurora, watching the demographics shift from predominantly white to predominantly hispanic and African American as I grew up, I would have to argue that certain suburbs are very culturally diverse. Same with Montgomery--at least the area where I teach--white students are the minority these days. We have several hispanic, asian, African Americans in our building. So I would just be careful about placing the label on "everyone."
Oh, and let's just get this clear: Paul does not always prove the point. In fact, Brian seems to always find a way to prove him wrong . . .
I actually live right next to Crystal Lake and you wouldn't believe the amount of letters to the editor the Gay Games have been generating in the local paper. While there have been some letters where people says such things as 'God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve', the majority of the letters have been from people in support of the Gay Games and expressing their dismay at the ignorant fools who live around them who would deny the Gay Games. One more council needs to grant ordinances for things like 'no wake zones' (for those of you who don't ride boats, a wake is the disturbance in the water a boat makes) and the Gay Games will indeed be happening in Crystal Lake.
I was using Paul to prove my point, which does work very well.
Saying that there are a lot of hispanics in your school district does not prove anything. Diversity is not always people, but attitude. As soon as I insult the suburbs for not being diverse everyone gets upset and says "i have a black/gay/hispanic friend." Diversity in the suburbs is not having to aruge to have the gay games in the first place!
Jon has several good points and, as a fellow white child of a diverse suburb with Michele, I still think he's right. The suburbs are a more racially diverse place now, yes--but they are still as "white" as can be culturally. We're so wrapped up in this world, where abberration is abhorred and conformity is king, that we hardly even realize that other people see it differently.
As for the Gay Games, I don't know what the crazies in Crystal Lake think they're going to see, but what they'll probably discover is a bunch of plain-looking men and women with short hair watching an athletic competition that seems pointless to outsiders. In other words, a high-school junior varsity football game.
Finally, Jon, if a gay pride parade isn't rated R that's because it's rated NC-17 or even XXX. And they definitely don't serve the same purpose as the Gay Games. For the sake of gay folks everywhere, I hope the Games bear no resemblance whatsoever to a pride parade. Those are definitely not our best days.
Here's what it is like not growing up the in the suburbs (i'm definitely not a card carrier). I grew up in a very small town. Fairmont is called a "suburb" but it is not for the obvious reasons (for one its in Southern Illinois, and two, its actually urban, etc.). My first three years of school, i attended a predominately (and still is) african american gradeschool (where my mom still teaches) where i was the only white girl in my class. For the rest of gradeschool, i attended a predominately hispanic (Fairmont is about 85% mexican) school where i was one of the few white kids in my classes. There is something to be said for people who grow up in cultures completely from "their own." For my first three years i acted just like african american children. my mom called it my "black lingo," and for the rest of gradeschool i participated in endless amounts of Mexican traditions and was absorbed in their culture. When i got to high school, white kids from the "suburbs" were the majority of the school and it was VERY difficult for me to understand why they acted the way they did and said the things they said. They would always say things that were so ignorant and hurtful about the cultures i grew up in. The suburbs are wonderful places to grow up, but Jon definitely has a point generalizing burb kids, at least the burb kids i'd come to known. But some of my best friends are burb kids who aren't like Jon's generalization either. So generalizations are often wrong (b/c they're generalizations), but I find there's some truth to this one.
OK, I don't like arguing. I can see both sides to this story. I just was asking you to be careful with the way you label things. Assigning a label without truly knowing them is just a risky move. I just wanted you to be aware of that.
I’m always against anything that furthers censorship and its one of the biggest things I hate about the far right. You will never see me voting for anything that furthers it. Do you even bother asking me my opinion on the issue, no you label me and assume I agree with some nut cakes in crystal lake.
I'm tired of everyone labeling me as some extreme form of a bigot. At the same time I don't see anyone here even thinking about moving to East Chicago or any other disadvantaged town. In fact I don’t even think anyone of any race particularly enjoys living there. Why don’t I care for riding public transportation at midnight? Because I don’t like getting harassed, and yes it’s happened to me several times. I’ve found it to be equally discomforting getting harassed by a white or black person. Poor neighborhoods of any race are less safe than rich ones; statistics prove that over 100's of years.
I hate blogger.com, I so posted this yesterday.
I'm not sure if I agree with Jon because I'm not sure what Jon is arguing. First he tells Lauren that the diversity in the suburbs compared to the city is almost 0. Implying that it's about the racial make-up, then in the next breath he's telling Michele that it's not about the racial or ethnic make-up, it's an attitude. Which one is it? I also get annoyed at the broad brush you're paiting "People in the suburbs" with. If I said peeopl in big cities are violent and uneducated, you'd be pissed, and rightly so. It's not right to generalize people like that when you are trying to promote understanding. Plus Cy's report from Crystal Lake seems to show that most people think the folks opposing the Gay Games (if you want to know whey they aren't called the Gay Olympics let me know and I an give you a quick brief on it; see my second big assignment of the school year) are dumb. So maybe it's just some people. And just because most people in a town have the same skin color doesn't mean they are diverse. Look at my home town of Wheeling, there is a boat load of Russians and Poles that fill the town. So many Poles in fact that in addition to having English and Spainish masses, the Catholic Church in town does a mass in Polish as well.
Excellent Paul! It is about time!
OK people, I do not need a lesson on generalization, and I am glad that everyone does not like being generalized. Here is the problem however...
The reality is that we live in a world of assumptions and generalizations. I am happy that everyone is all fired up about what I have said, but you guys getting all fired up changes nothing! White people leave the city of Chicago at an alarming rate each year, and the property values of black neighborhoods goes down every year. This is fact. It is also a fact that when the white people move out, they take the money with them. The issue is, that everyone is just ok with it, or will just talk about it on a blog and be like.. I don't live there, so it is not my problem. Ignorance is bliss, and my friends that is the suburbs. We don't have a problem with gay people, black people, or Hispanics until they move into our town. Many towns around the Chicago area actually have placed zoning laws which prohibit low income housing or multifamily housing.
Once again Gerken, diversity is not always about skin, but ideas and acceptance. It is time to accept the reality!
That's fine Jon I was just asking, because I couldn't figure you out since you said both. Though if diversity is about ideas AND acceptance, then where is it actually diverse?
Hey Paul, if I hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to. It was just a joke. . .
I think the biggest thing here is that people are reluctant to change, which only leads to non-acceptance. It's not like these issues are suddenly popping up now for the first time. Homosexuality used to be something that was supposed to be "bad" and therefore people kept their true identity hidden.
But in the recent years, it has actually become something that is MORE accepted in many areas. Think about it--you see more homosexual characters on TV (although they are not always depicted in a very real light i.e. Jack on Will & Grace). There seem to be more groups for gays on college campuses, and in general, I'd say everyone I know knows at least 1 or 2 gay people.
However, it is the people who are reluctant to make this change to "acceptance" who are causing all the issues. (Which, of course, makes sense).
I guess my point is that I think that those who are accepting just get overshadowed by the assholes who make a stink about things.
And, I just didn't enjoy being categorizied as ignorant and unaccepting just because I happen to live in the suburbs. (By the way, Jon, I'd be curious to know how accepting St. Louis is. I mean, you live in the St. Louis suburbs . . .)
And yes, while I realize this initial argument was over Crystal Lake (Which, is it really considered one of the suburbs? I didn't think it was that big or developed . . . ), I'm just wondering if it's the same story in the Lou. (Not trying to keep this thing going, just honestly curious).
A quick note on Crystal Lake from someone who has been there recently: It is most definitely a suburb. Maybe it wasn't when we were growing up, but today it's a town of more than 35,000 people and if you drive down 14 as it runs through town you'll see every single store you're used to seeing on Randall Road (which was also considered beyond the suburbs only a few years ago). Heck, Huntley is becoming a suburb. Can Marengo and Hampshire be far behind?
Gerken, I have talked about diversity in this thread 18 different ways, it is your job tokeep up! :)
obviously I don't get up north that often . . .
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